Sociology and migration researcher Ruud Koopmans and journalist and former France correspondent Stefan de Vries appeared as guests on the podcast Ekiz & Oei, hosted by journalists Fidan Ekiz and Ruth Oei. It was the first time Koopmans and De Vries had met.

They discussed who asylum policy helps, how crime statistics should be interpreted, and why the Netherlands feels dissatisfied despite strong economic performance. The conversation also addressed polarization, facts and communication in society.